“Barnyard Language” Podcasters Have Real Talks About Issues Facing Farm Families

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Meet Arlene and Caite

Arlene Hunter and Caite Palmer are the hosts of the “Barnyard Language” podcast, which focuses on running farms and raising families. Arlene is a Canadian dairy farmer with four kids, and Caite is an American beef and sheep producer with two children.

The two met online in a Facebook group for a parenting podcast, struck up a friendship, and started a podcast of their own. Now in its fourth season, “Barnyard Language” features guests from all aspects of agriculture, covering both serious and fun topics.

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Transcript

Please note: This transcript has not been edited.

Lisa Foust Prater: Welcome to the “15 Minutes with a Farmer” podcast from Successful Farming, I’m your host, Lisa Foust Prater.

My guests today are Arlene Hunter and Caite Palmer, hosts of the “Barnyard Language” podcast, which focuses on running farms and raising families. Arlene is a Canadian dairy farmer with four kids and Caite is an American beef and sheep producer with two children.

In each episode, I have a quick 15 minute conversation with a farmer to hear their story and share their experience, expertise, and life lessons. 

Arlene Hunter: Thanks for having us. 15 minutes with two farmers.

Lisa Foust Prater: Yay!

Caite Palmer: Seven and half minutes each. That’s probably safer.

Lisa Foust Prater: I think that’s seven and a half minutes with two farmers.

Arlene Hunter: That’s a whole different podcast.

Lisa Foust Prater: That title’s much longer for that one, so we’ll just keep it tight. Well, as we are recording, we just finished recording an episode of your podcast, “Barnyard Language,” and I was so excited to be a guest, so thank you for having me on your podcast, and also thank you for coming on my podcast. This is just such a fun morning.

Arlene Hunter: Well, we love podcasting, so being on each other’s just adds to the fun because I think we agree that talking to other farmers is the best. So that’s what we do too.

Lisa Foust Prater: It is the best. It’s my favorite part of my job. So for starters, why don’t each of you just, we’ll take a turn. And if you can just tell us a little bit about yourself, where you’re from, your farm background.

Arlene Hunter: Sure. So my name is Arlene Hunter and I’m from Eastern Ontario, Canada. So I live not too far out of the capital city. So I’m near Ottawa and I live on a multi-generational dairy farm. So I grew up on a dairy farm and was one of those kids who said, never will I marry a farmer, especially a dairy farmer. And then I went and did it. So I went away to university at a place where the Aggies were.

I was not an agriculture student, I was in geography, but hung out with Aggies and met one and ended up marrying a farmer who was coming back home to his family farm, which actually is not too far from where I grew up. So that’s kind of neat too that the grandparents are still close by, but we had to go away to find each other. So he is sixth generation here on this property and our kids are the seventh. And we milk around 80 cows and raise all of our own replacement animals.

We’re milking two times a day in a modern tie stall. So relatively small compared to a lot of American farms. But here in Ontario, we’re about the average herd size because in Canada, we still have the supply managed system in our dairy sector. And we also have about 700 acres of ground and rent a couple hundred more where we grow corn and soybeans and lots of hay for all of those cows. And we’re raising four kids here. So my oldest is off back at university back at the school where her dad and I met. And so she’s turning 19 soon and she’s taking an ag science degree. And then I’ve got three boys still here at home with us. So they are currently 16, 14 and a few days away from being 10.

Caite Palmer: I’m Caite Palmer. My husband and I farm in far northeastern Iowa. We raise Normandy beef cattle and Katahdin hair sheep, so both for meat. Our kids are the fifth generation on this family farm. I grew up on a hobby farm south of Ames in central Iowa. And my husband and I both work full-time off-farm.

We have a boy who is six and a daughter who will be eight tomorrow. She and Arlene’s daughter share a birthday, which is a fun little thing. Yeah, we have about, I think, 16 cow-calf pairs. And then another, I think ten feeders out there and we usually run between 35 and 40 sheep. So 40 ewes. So this time of year, 40 in another five months, hopefully 120 to 160. So it’s hard to tell people how many sheep you run because it varies quickly between one number and another.

We run about 300 acres with my husband’s parents and about a third of that is in corn, beans, small grain hay rotation to feed our livestock. A third of it is in timber and a third of it is in conservation CRP.

Lisa Foust Prater: So how did you two find each other?

Arlene Hunter: Right. So like most relationships these days, we met online. Caite and I were both on the podcast theme, listened to a podcast, a parenting podcast called One Bad Mother. And it has Facebook groups where you can go and meet other moms and vent and support each other and those types of things. And then that giant Facebook group turned into offshoot groups where there were ones for stay at home parents or for working parents, single parents, all kinds of things.

And there was one for farm and ranch parents. So we ended up kind of meeting quote unquote on that Facebook page. And then Caite can actually tell the story of how we ended up starting a podcast.

Caite Palmer: I really wanted to look at building community and especially around parenting because like the parenting group that Arlene and I met through is a fantastic community, but most of the members are coastal and we deal with some very different problems. You know, there’s no door-dashing supper here if things get late. There’s no, my husband golfs all weekend. There’s a lot more, how do I get white pants clean for show season? 

Lisa Foust Prater: Fels Naptha.

Caite Palmer: And yeah, yeah. You know, so we face some very different issues and also we wanted to talk to a broader base because so much parenting material is only directed at women. And the concept of a farm parent can be pretty samezies. And so we wanted to reach out more. 

Arlene Hunter: One of the things that we’re really working on is the fact that parenting is not just a women’s issue.

It seems like so much of the media centers around the idea that parenting issues are for women to worry about. But especially in farm families, a lot of the people we’re talking to, both people are farming. Or like Caite’’s family, both people are working off farm and farming. so parenting is not that stereotypical, it’s just the mom’s job. We need to really look at the fact that dads are parents too.

Lisa Foust Prater: Yeah, that’s fantastic. And like you said on the farm, when the dads are doing something, the moms are in charge of the kids, when the moms are doing something, the dads are in charge of the kids, it’s really a joint, it’s a group effort. It’s all hands on deck all the time, it feels like.

Caite Palmer: We’ve talked to people who are foster parents or who are, you know, grandparents helping raise grandkids. There are so many ways to make a family, and there are so many ways to farm, and there are so many ways to raise kids, and I really hope that we can represent more and more of that to folks and really make it easier for people to see themselves in how we present farm families to the rest of the world.

Arlene Hunter: And that is the theme that keeps coming back time and time again is that there is no one way and there’s no right way. Same as farms, right? We all have different farms and for lots of different reasons. And someone in Arizona is not gonna farm the same way as I do here in Canada. And we all have different kids and the people who show up in our house, whether that was through birth or adoption or fostering, they are different people. And I’m not gonna even parent my four kids. They’re not getting parented the same way as each other. It really just is about acknowledging that there are a lot of differences and that’s fine, but that we can still support each other.

Lisa Foust Prater: I’m curious about challenges that you feel like farm families in particular face when raising kids. 

Arlene Hunter: I mean, I think it’s easy to say that childcare is number one. And for probably most parents, no matter whether you’re farming or not, it’s number one. But for farmers, it’s that much harder. We’re mostly living in rural places. You know, there are some urban farmers that we’ve talked to, but we’re mostly living in rural places that are underserviced. And there’s also the cultural aspect that we try to talk about where there’s an expectation that you can just continue to do your job with your kids there. And sometimes that’s true and sometimes that’s not.

And it’s also okay to say, I need childcare. And sometimes in farm communities, that’s frowned upon because, well, why can’t your kids just be in the barn or in the tractor or in the combine or wherever? And some days that’s great. And often on social media, that’s what we’re seeing. And those are the good moments, but that also puts our kids at risk and it puts us at risk because we’re doing dangerous work. And Caite and I have talked a lot about the fact that if my plumber showed up or my electrician showed up, or my vet showed up and they had their two-year-old along with them, I would think, what are they doing? That’s not safe. And yet we have this expectation that it’s okay for our kids or for other people’s kids sometimes to just tag along and to always be there. And that’s just not realistic and it’s often not safe. And so I think that that’s for me, one of the things that comes up the most is how we balance childcare and whether that’s paid childcare, we have to acknowledge that there are a lot of people who are doing free childcare. There are grandparents, aunts and uncles. We need to accept the fact that creative childcare solutions need to be found and that childcare is work and that we can’t always expect that to be done for free and that we need to lobby for solutions that work for farmers because we also know that It’s not a nine to five job. And even the, you know, the more traditional paid childcare options that are out there often don’t suit our needs.

Lisa Foust Prater: Right. I’m so glad that you said that about the safety. I mean, gosh, in my job for Successful Farming, I have talked to more mothers than I care to count who have had children who have had terrible injuries or who have lost their children in farm incidents. I feel like that’s such an important message that that’s, that is the, that is why childcare is such an important issue for rural families. It’s not just because, you know, we, don’t want to deal with our kids. It’s because our kids are in danger if they are with us a lot of the time.

Arlene Hunter: And we also need to look at productivity. I mean, if we treat farms as businesses, which for some of us, they are our primary source of income, then it’s okay to also recognize the fact that you need to be productive when you’re working. And it’s hard to be productive if you have a baby on your back and a toddler holding your hand. I mean, like, it’s great to be able to say, well, I get to spend my days with my kids. But if you’re also trying to make money and support your family, then it’s also okay to say, they need to not be here for this many hours a week so I can be more efficient and be a better parent when they are with me because then I can focus on them and not trying to do 10 things at once.

Lisa Foust Prater: Right, right.

Caite Palmer: I feel like one of the biggest threats in farming both to farm production and farm families is this idea of this is how we’ve always done it. Nothing else in the world is the same as it was 100 years ago. There is no reason that we should think that how we farm or how we raise our families should be the same as it was 100 years ago.

And it feels like it ties into, you know, to folks who say, well, we never needed therapy. We never needed child care. My wife, you know, my grandma never needed help. Well, probably she had help that you never noticed. And also she may have needed help. She just didn’t get it.

Arlene Hunter: I guess other challenges, I mean, it’s a lot of the similar things that, you know, we talk about at lots of farming conferences and, you know, on podcasts, things like succession planning. But when you think about it from a parent’s perspective of young children, you know, it’s also the added, you know, do I want this life for them? How am I planning for a farm that may or may not be taken over? You know, those discussions that other families, feel like in other businesses don’t really have to think about, you know, maybe small business families maybe if you have a restaurant or something like that or those types of things. But the conversations around succession planning often seem to center around when you’ve got people who are transitioning in, but how do you think about it when your kids are young and the types of decisions that work for you but that hopefully will or maybe will lead to transition and also the expectations around that intergenerational pressure, guilt, I don’t know what you call it. Expectations, obligation, whether you feel like you’re serving your ancestors and also serving your kids at the same time. I think it’s just different for farm families.

Caite Palmer: I think Arlene, that’s such a good point because with my off farm work, mean, I do concern myself with whether my work pays well enough and provides benefits for my family. But I don’t have to consider if I’m building a strong legacy for my children. I just have to do my work. And then I get paid and I get paid pretty much the same amount every two weeks. And the checks always good. And if it rains too much or doesn’t rain at all, generally, I can still do my work and I still get paid. yeah. But, you know, it’s a very different setup than farming.

Arlene Hunter: Yeah, just do the job.

Lisa Foust Prater: Yeah, it is such a rare thing. It really, you know, just being a farmer is it’s so much more than a job. I mean, it really is who you are. It’s such an ingrained part of your identity. And having that intergenerational pressure is just, it’s so hard. And I think that’s that’s ties into mental health a lot, you know, that you feel that pressure of I don’t want to be the one to lose this farm, you know, my dad made it through the 80s. My great grandpa made it through, you know, the depression and here I am. I don’t want to be the one.

Arlene Hunter: Right. And then add to that, I also want to make sure I raise the next one. So then you’re adding more pressure on yourself to be like, am I raising a successor? And do I want that for them? Right? Do I want to add that guilt to their life? You know, like, yes, maybe it’s something I love, but if I raise kids who don’t love it, then I don’t want them to do it. We’ve said a million times, it’s too much work if you don’t love it. It’s too hard if you don’t love it. But  that just adds to the guilt chain, right? If you don’t raise a then you’re not a failure as a parent. But maybe do you feel like a failure as a farmer? I don’t know.

Lisa Foust Prater: Right, right. It’s so hard. it’s just, know, parenting guilt in and of itself is a real thing. But then you add on that layer of guilt, just so much more guilt. It’s just so hard. Being a parent is hard. So, you know, I mean, those are definitely some hard things about raising kids on the farm, dealing with childcare, dealing with safety. I mean, so scary and worrying about succession and guilt and all of those things. But there’s so many good things too. So let’s hear from both of you about the things that you love the most about raising your kids on the farm.

Arlene Hunter: One of my favorite things is the fact that we live across the road from my in-laws and my father-in-law is in the barn every day and my mother-in-law is a huge support to me and watching the relationship that they have with my kids. My parents are very involved too and I don’t take anything away from them but there is something about that daily relationship that my kids have with their grandparents that is unique and my husband’s grandmother recently passed away and she lived in this house before we did and she had an amazing relationship with them too and could tell them stories about this farm and this house.

And it’s just really neat to see that contact that we have. And I know there’s a lot of families where that can be a struggle too. And I’m not saying that it’s perfect, but being able to have those relationships for myself and for my kids is huge for me.

Caite Palmer: I myself as someone who was horrified that people lived that close to their in-laws right up until I married a man who’s lived on the same farm his whole life and now I literally live across the road from my in-laws who are fantastic people and we are so so lucky to have that relationship with them but because we do live at work and we do work with family, our kids get to see so much more of who we are as people. I think it’s so easy for kids to see parents as just this, like, mysterious force, you know, sort of the same way that teachers live at school, that parents are just parents. And because our kids see us working and they see us working with family and balancing those roles, I think our kids see so much more of who we are as humans and how humans balance different roles and how we work a business together and hopefully still love each other. Some days it’s a little more sketchy, but you know, they’re exposed to so much more about how we handle money and how we make decisions and what our priorities are and what our morals and our ethics are and how we interact with people who aren’t like us or how we interact with doing business deals with neighbors that we’ve lived next to for a hundred years. You know, there’s, they see so much more of who we are and how our lives work. And that’s amazing. It’s, you know, so many kids could not tell you what their parents do. I know my kids have no idea what I actually do. Yeah, yeah, but they, you know, they have so much more insight into how our lives work.

Lisa Foust Prater: That is beautiful and so true. Well, Arlene and Caite, it has been so much fun to talk to you today, both for your super fun podcast and for mine. And I love getting to meet you and the work that you’re doing is fantastic. Parents, whether it’s mothers, fathers, grandparents, fosters, whatever the situation is, need this kind of support and need this kind of resource. So hats off to you for bringing that to all of us and keep up the fantastic work.

Arlene Hunter: Thank you so much

Caite Palmer: Thank you, Lisa.

Lisa Foust Prater: Thank you for listening. Open the latest issue of Successful Farming and visit us online at agriculture.com for more interesting features and news for your farm. Please follow, rate, and review us wherever you get your podcasts, and join me next week for another episode of 15 Minutes With a Farmer.